From ... From: root Subject: Re: Design patterns as a weapon Date: 1999/11/29 Message-ID: <3152894135590750@naggum.no>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 554540190 References: <382C2EED.AE9361C0@computer.org> <382C711F.636A3B5B@computer.org> <38319a69$0$230@newsreader.alink.net> <1e1ij0s.9hmobm185jt74N%schuerig@acm.org> <1e1j8m6.1tx094q13kf59sN%schuerig@acm.org> <1e1ozs2.1jkouw410nom3gN%schuerig@acm.org> <81fqpg$42l2b@fido.engr.sgi.com> <1e1sqzs.1j4vexi1a6wjggN%schuerig@acm.org> <1e21nqm.1p0g6tjinjidcN%schuerig@acm.org> mail-copies-to: never X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@eunet.no X-Trace: oslo-nntp.eunet.no 943905386 19520 195.0.192.66 (29 Nov 1999 19:56:26 GMT) Organization: Naggum Software; +47 8800 8879 or +1 510 435 8604; fax: +47 2210 9077; http://www.naggum.no NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Nov 1999 19:56:26 GMT Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp * Michael Schuerig | The most important thing about a pattern is that it gives you guidance | when to apply it. A language feature does not do that. this whole argument is getting rather bizarre in my view. it seems that you attribute to these "patterns" the entire culture of good programming practice, and refuse to acknowledge that good programming practice can even exist without patterns. it's like the joke about Freudians: if you deny having an Oedipus complex, you're even worse off, because then you suffer from _suppressing_ your Oedipus complex. however, nobody here appears to be denying the value of patterns, just the exclusionary point that everything else that has value must also be patterns, and that if it isn't a pattern, then it lacks goodness in some fundamental sense. in this particular case, consider a textbook and a community of programmers who tell their students and new members how to use a langauge feature. some would say "ah! pattern! I knew it!" while others will argue that _teaching_ and _apprenticeship_ are hardly worth patternizing since they are already well-established processes and concepts. I think it's worth our while to identify certain commonalities in what good programmers do when they write good software, but there is a very real danger in making everything explicit and spending time talking about it: we lose track of its proportions and relevance, and the more we talk about one thing to the exclusion of other things, the more we try to tie that thing into everything else through the most dubious of connections that would be seen as obviously wrong to anyone who had not focused so heavily on that particular thing. this is why it's vital to a healthy mind constantly to seek and examine information that runs counter to its established ideas and concepts. only that way can a person maintain the crucial psychological belief that what one does believe is superior to what one does not or no longer believe. the alternative is fanaticism. #:Erik